Torino 2 Milan 2
By: Gianfranco | November 24th, 2008Blaming the ref is not the right thing to do, and I will not stoop the level of fans of other teams who blame the refs for their teams piss poor performance. I have said it once and I will say it again; these things always tend to balance during the course of a very long season. Milan had some fortuitous calls go their way, today they were not as fortunate.
Blaming the refs is the mark of a uneducated fan, and reserved for fans of certain other clubs, specifically when that fan is unable to place the blame where it truly belongings, their own team. The loss today starts in the front and ends on the bench. For Milan it is the same old song and dance, missed chances in front of goal, poor passes, and the inability to land the knockout punch and bury your opponent long before the final whistle. I am not going to talk about the attack, because the chances were there again today, but the finish left a little to be desired.
In the first 15 minutes it was evident that Milan was trying to find their way as a unit and it showed on the pitch. The pace of the match was frenetic and I was relieved that Milan was able to hang with a Torino team who looked hopped up on Red Bull. Conceding the goal with a poor pass from the back, but answering back so quickly made me wonder if in fact this team is the stuff of champions. But then I we had to factor in the leader of this ship.
The loss today is not all Carletto’s fault but from the first minute this team looked a bit lacking on defense. Typically Milan plays their defensive back four with two defensive minded midfielders alongside whoever the deep playmaker will be. Today this was a little different, with Rino as the only DM, and both Pirlo and Seedorf in the midfield line there was two a bit to much white collar to make a game this quick winnable. To make matters worse, subbing Sheva for Rino and Emerson for Pirlo did not have the desired effect needed on this club. The defense needed assistance and it was evident long before Milan conceded the penalty. Kaka, Seedorf, or even Pirlo who was just back could have made way for Flamini, while Zambro or Antoni could have provided fresh legs in the back as well. Two points lost on stubbornness of the system once again…
However it is not all doom and gloom, as there were bright spots to today’s performance. Bonera had a world class first class but seemed to tire and fall out of the match. Pirlo’s touch was silky smooth despite the long lay off, and it is only a matter of time before it comes back full force. Lastly, teams will be smart not to concede free kicks with both Pirlo and Dinho standing over the ball with the ability to bury it.
As I skimmed the comments on the last post, this quote stuck out. “Dropping points to team like these will haunt us at the end of the season.” I hope this statement as quickly forgotten…
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Comments
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Oh, and the DVDs that Ursus linked to are probably PAL and may not play on your US DVD player (although I think you can jet programs to play them on your computer).
Why do they always have to make things so hard?
Posted from
United States
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Fuck i hope those greeks hump Sfinter tomorrow, i don’t think it will happen but i’ll keep my fingers crossed anyway. And i cant wait for those stranieri bastardi to play a half decent team in the CL, I wanna celebrate Sfinter not winning another CL title. What would that make it? 53 years without one. I wonder if it’s their cardboard scudetti that keeps them showing their ugly fucking mugs everyday
Posted from
Australia -
Ursus, so how are they differentiated and what are the respective qualities you are hinting at?
Posted from
Australia -
Some of you mentioned that the XMAS tree formation is ok and is producing chances and that there were times when playing 2 strikers was not the best solution either.
The statistics:
Playing XMAS tree resulted in 2 defeats (Bologna-Inz, Genoa-Shev), 3 draws (Cagliari-Pat, Lecce-Bor and Torino-Pat) and 4 wins (against a “big” team Inter-red card-Pat, Atalanta-Bor, Napoli-red card-Bor and Chievo-Inz) with the result 1-0.
Playing 2 strikers resulted in 4 wins (4-1 Pat-Bor, 2-1 Pat-Bor, 3-0 Pat-Bor and 2-1 Pat-Inz).
It is obviuos that two striker formation is producing results and confidence, whereas playing XMAS tree the team is unbalanced and is often struggling.
I also wrote down fielded striker(s) in each game for those who have doubts about Boriello`s qualities.Posted from
Slovenia -
A, I presume the question is about defending rather than videos.
Basically, I think the standard of defending is higher in Italy than Spain, and that Italian clubs in general place more emphasis on defensive tactics than their counterparts in any of the other major European leagues. There also is a general tendancy of Italian clubs to take their foot off the gas once they have a two goal lead, whereas scores of five or six are not unusual in Spain.
Posted from
Italy -
Milan seems to take its foot off the gas even when having but a single goal lead…
Posted from
United States -
BTW, this morning’s Gazzetta has Milan being “very interested” in getting Gallas from Arsenal in the January window.
Posted from
Italy -
NO, not Gallas, why not a younger, less egocentric defender?
Posted from
Switzerland -
Because it’s Milan?
If it makes you feel any better, the same article sees Thiago Silva as the long term answer (but both Milan and Inter have viewed him as such for more than a year now).
Posted from
Italy -
Yea, Thiago Silva will come in the summer b/c Milan can’t sign any foreign players for this season.
Posted from
United States -
milams, yet all our main only have 6 goals combined in the season thus far.
if you want statistics to make a difference in football, you should be watching gridiron, not calcio.
Posted from
United States -
shehan I think you mean main strikers.
“if you want statistics to make a difference in football, you should be watching gridiron, not calcio.”
Statistics say a lot my friend.
Posted from
United States -
yes, thanks for the correction, i mean to say ‘main strikers’.
i agree, statistics say quite a lot. but history counts for nothing in 90 minutes of football.
another statistic is that we have fared well in all of our evening games, and haven’t won one day game this season. with the logic being displayed so exuberantly over here, i demand that lega changes all of our games to evening fixtures…
Posted from
United States -
todays report are going crazy.
now they’re saying Pato for Ramos. or even worse, mediaset has a poll asking if if Milan should go for Pato to Madrid and Mutu to Milan!!
and no to Gallas, too old. get both Santacroce and Thiago Silva. around 30 million or so for both but we’re set for the next decade.
Posted from
United States -
you heard it here first! – Landon Donovan for Kaka (smile).
Posted from
United States -
you should seriously think about selling kaka to man city. he is unsettled with ronaldinho and gourcuff can seriously slot in hes playing amazing. sell kaka and with that money get sergo ramos and you will be set
Posted from
United States -
well that’s superstitious shehan.
I think milams conclusions are somewhat valid.
Posted from
Canada -
“patcook, you tend to oversimplify football to a banter about numbers in formation. as a result, i more often than not never understand your point.
you have the ideology that you make the team mold first then plug in the players where you see fit. unfortunately, that only works reasonably well in fifa 2009. try playing ronaldinho as striker in that game, his number jumps up by 2 points!!”Shehan, ive never played fifa09 so ill have to trust you on that one…and if you want to resort to simply insulting me then im not suprised you ‘never understand’. My point is you guys see rigid player that can only play very specific roles, i see players who have good all round talents and the ability to play several roles depending on what the team and formation need. It would be great to play everyone in their favourite position but we wouldn’t win anything. Also, i agree your position has merit, but Carlo’s shared your ideas for the last few seasons and its done bugger all for us in the league, so why not try a different approach? The thing that annoys me most is that it seems Carlo and people like you think there is only one answer, If your way is the only right way everyone would be doing it all the time.
Also, we won 2003 CL and 2004 Scudetto with 2 striker christmas tree, we won 2007 CL with one striker christmas tree and plummeted to 5th in the league.
And as Milams pointed out…”Playing XMAS tree resulted in 2 defeats (Bologna-Inz, Genoa-Shev), 3 draws (Cagliari-Pat, Lecce-Bor and Torino-Pat) and 4 wins (against a “big” team Inter-red card-Pat, Atalanta-Bor, Napoli-red card-Bor and Chievo-Inz) with the result 1-0.
Playing 2 strikers resulted in 4 wins (4-1 Pat-Bor, 2-1 Pat-Bor, 3-0 Pat-Bor and 2-1 Pat-Inz).”Posted from
Australia -
“you should seriously think about selling kaka to man city. he is unsettled with ronaldinho and gourcuff can seriously slot in hes playing amazing. sell kaka and with that money get sergo ramos and you will be set”
alessandro d’agostino, thats not really the culture the club is trying to breed, Milans “not a selling club” and trys to foster a loyal, stable playing roster.
Its probably a good idea to cash in on Kaka if he cant settle, but i cant see it happening unless Kaka forces his way out of Milan like Sheva did
Posted from
Australia -
again patcook, you simply believe that the team makes the individual. although it is simple empiricism that logic uses to justify why it is the individual components that make up the team.
it doesnt take a genius to figure out that any player can technically play anywhere on the field. dida would make an excellent target man, 200lbs, strong, tall, shooting balls up to him we’ll get some strength on our front line. but hell, he doesnt have ALL the necessary qualities. whether he plays as a target man isn’t the question (because he can), the real question is whether you get the best out of dida in that position. do you? the answer is no. no you don’t, no you cannot. and no you will not.
a perfect example of the style you are preaching is that of inter milan’s. only one of their strikers has been able to thrive in the 4-3-3 system mourinho has employed; ibrahimovic. but at what price of the others? quaresma has failed miserably, mancini is a non-factor. mourinho doesn’t even start them anymore. why? because he asks them to do so much hustling and pressuring that it affects their offensive game. mourinho killed the career of joe cole, ashley cole, john obi mikel. joe cole and mikel used to be the most technically gifted footballers before mourinho was their coach, but he molded them into hustlers who lost their creative spark.
ofcourse now you will retort that inter are top of the table. but then i will ask you how much is that because of the substance of INTER or the genius of ibrahimovic? the brilliance of a player cannot be directly attributed to the team, especially with the shit that ibrahimovic has been pulling off. he is carrying inter, he is the only reason they are at the top. mourinho’s getting lucky if you ask me, inter is currently a one man show. no style, no substance, only ibrahimovic. once ibrahimovic has an off day, like when he played us and Maldini marked him out of the game, inter struggled unbelievably. and they eventually lost.
nobody is arguing that ronaldinho cannot play LM, but all i am saying is that you will waste him in that position. he will become into a quaresma, a mancini, a joe cole.
you get the best for your team when you get the best out of its individual components. the players shape your game, and not the other way around. otherwise everybody would be playing like barcelona or arsenal. in reality, barcelona and arsenal have some of the most technically gifted footballers on the planet, and they have the capacity to play in the style that they do.
Posted from
United States -
No Alessandro , Milan isnt Such a club. Some Things are priceless and kaka is one of them. when the club was down , he showed faith and loyalty to our club and now its our turn to show the faith in him. He means too much to us just to sell him to city and spoil his career. He is still our best player. No doubts about that.
Posted from
United States -
Milan have class agostino, we aren’t palermo!
Posted from
United States -
has kaka really shown loyalty to milan? he gets paid 8 million a year and yet constanly talks about not knowing what the future holds and wanting to play in england and madrid. its not as if he is setting milan alight with his football either this year. if he wanted to leave which i think he might (and would at least bring an end to the rubbish which comes from his camp) then i honestly would not be as upset as i would have been a year ago.
Posted from
Ireland -
What fun would it be to be a fun if we always won 4-0, and were 3-0 by halftime every game? The result would be, yes a schudetto, but look at the world perceives Inter after their recent run of championships. They are still viewed as part of the second tier of big clubs, even though they ran away with the Serie A two years running. Winning easily just isn’t as satisfying as a last second victory.
On another track, I don’t think that Kaka would have to force his way out for Milan to sell him. Up to this point, he has shown himself to be too classy for that (although this recent spate of diving makes me wonder…). It has happened before that a player and a club mutually agree on the suitability of a transfer without any kind of drama in the press (Rare, yes, but still true! Trust me!). And honestly, given the presence of Ronaldinho and a Gourcuff who offers similar qualities on the pitch, it makes the most financial sense to sell Kaka. No matter how loyal in the past, a player without motivation is a waste of space, and Kaka has looked pretty unmotivated for the last two years really. I know we all love Kaka for what he has done, but no player – none – is greater than the team (which is also why I think letting Sheva crawl back was a mistake – I’m not really a fan of the whole prodigal son businesses – that just smacks of Berlusconi’s pride).
Posted from
United States -
Shehan i cant believe how rediculous your being.
Playing Dida as a striker is a little different to playing Ronnie as a left-centre mid, as i have advocated.
You keep using a lot of big words like “simple empiricism”, doesnt really make you sound any smarter when what your saying isn’t all that intelligent.For me Mourinho is one of the best coaches in the world and you’ll never get me to accept that stupoid arguement you posted above. You say Mourinho has just got lucky at inter, well i guess he was lucky at Porto and Chelsea too? I dont think someone gets lucky that many times in a row, i think that sort of record shows quality.
Shehan, I would like to hear your solution to Milans problems. What formation would you use. You probably wouldnt have one right? justy pick the 11 best players and tell them to play whatever position they feel suits them best.
I agree that you cant just slot players into unfamiliar positions (not that i think im asking that by playing Ronnie as a LCM/LM), but you also need a formation, a plan, tactics. Italy is all about playing a tactical game and i cant believe someone who professes to love calcio like yourself cant understand what im saying
Posted from
Australia
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